Five Plot Holes From Major Films That Are Hard To Look Past
I really hope I am not becoming a film snob, but sometimes, with this gig, I fear I might be. Nowhere was that more evident to me then when I saw The Dark Knight Rises. Like most people, I loved part two in Nolan’s trilogy, and overlooked some of the minor flaws for how undeniably good the film was. But with part three, it did not feel that way to me at all. Within a day of seeing it, I deeply examined the film and many of its flaws. Yet, everywhere I looked, the film was getting showered with praise. Now that some time has passed, it seems to be a great deal easier for people to reiterate what I said the day after it’s release.
Still, this has me questioning if I am becoming “that guy”, because after DKR, it seems all major films that followed had one or two glaring holes I could not look past. It also caused me to look back on some films I enjoyed, and notice holes I had not seen before. I would sit there and squirm, mumbling “no way” to myself, over and over, and not in a good way. Hopefully, by getting these out of my system right now, I will either find out these are perfectly reasonable inquiries into plot holes, or, if I am a film douche, this will exorcise that demon out of me for good. Note, most of these are from newer films, but there are some older gems on the list as well. So beware, MAJOR SPOILERS LAY AHEAD!
The Avengers: Hulking Out
Hulk gets REALLY MAD when tiny Iron Man stands on his shoulders and sings Ace of Base into his ears.
I think I made my love for Whedon quite apparent on this site already, so this is by no means a slap to his integrity. And despite what I am about to say, Avengers was a fun movie. But I found it strange that the first half of the film focused on how the Hulk’s rage was uncontrollable and potentially deadly to them all. Yet in the climax, Hulk can suddenly control it because he is “always mad”. It was a great line, but a bad plot hole. Even Loki’s whole plan bordered around getting Banner to Hulk out, and when he finally did, we were treated to one of the best shots in the film. When the Hulk is chasing Black Widow, and the debris is shattering behind him, that was super badass.
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBxepOWO4aA
You know what wasn’t badass, though? How Banner reappears on a motorcycle during the climactic battle, and can suddenly and inexplicably control when he Hulks out. Okay, him showing up on the bike for no reason was kind of cool, but I could not ignore that self-control fact, and felt it was a huge misstep in an otherwise fun ride. Also, he could control when he Hulked out, but he was suddenly a dick?
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHkT036deZ4
I know it made for a funny film moment, but man, it’s a douche move.
Prometheus: Black Goo
I almost went with a picture of Iggy Pop here to make the same point.
First off, a disclaimer, as I am oft to do. I didn’t hate Prometheus. I know a great deal of people did, as a result of it asking more questions than it answered. But, for me, the visuals, and the unspoken moments left to the viewers mind to interpret, made it well worth it. There were some real inconsistencies, though, and none moreso than the black goo. Namely, and if anyone can answer this inquiry, I imagine it is one of you guys or gals, but in Prometheus, why did the black goo make one person into a zombie? A weird, big-headed, super aggressive zombie? I can understand it may have chained into people’s DNA and acted off their impulses or some shit, but that single scene felt out of place to me, in a movie that couldn’t really afford to have as many things out of place as it did.
Also, why was Guy Pierce in old person makeup, and in the film for only five minutes? He is a very talented actor (Memento shoutout, yo) and was pushed into an acting corner as an old man, buried in prosthetic makeup, with very little memorable about him at all. Me thinks that is a setup for a sequel or prequel, but a prequel of a prequel is nothing more than an unnecessary flashback of a mindfuck, and this movie was already enough of one of those.
But no one can deny Fassbender was amazing, though, and I, personally, really dug the Engineers. But I have eaten swiss cheese with less holes.
Dark Knight Rises: That F*cking Ending (and the Lack of The Joker)
Bane sounded like an odd mix of Bill Cosby and one of Charlie Brown’s teachers.
I know, I could go on for days about this one, and already have. In some ways, my distaste for The Dark Knight Rises is not fair to Christopher Nolan’s amazing trilogy, and I can see that. There was no way he could have followed up that second film, because that film was pure magic, and a great deal of that magic emanated out from Heath Ledger’s enigmatic portrayal of The joker. The clown prince who truly brought all of Gotham to it’s knees. And I can also PARTLY understand why he would not want The Joker’s legacy from that film to be touched out of respect for the passing of Mr.Ledger, but to not even MENTION one of the most devious, well written, and well acted bad guys in film history was a huge and unforgivable hole. Although it was addressed, hypothetically, and brilliantly, in this dreamt up storyboard we ran some time ago, it is still left unanswered in a film that stacks questions onto questions, which no final film in a trilogy should do. You close it all up in a tight little package. Not the opposite.
The other thing I couldn’t look past was the idea of the bomb going off in close enough range that all of Gotham would have died from fallout, and with exactly zero percent chance of Bruce escaping. Yet, there he is, at the end of the film, in some Parisian cafe, after all of his friends, family, and fans have mourned the death of Batman, and wouldn’t you know it, he is dressed like a douchebag, and with the lady who pretty much caused ALL OF THE BAD SHIT THAT HAPPENS TO HIM AND EVERYONE.
Way to keep it under the radar, Bruce. You’re supposed to be dead. Also, Alfred has been blaming himself for your death for years, you fucker. Also, how did you not die from that explosion when the blast radius is six miles? Also, smiling doesn’t make up for the Hell you put people through. Also, bad ending to good trilogy.
On a side note, I have total bro boner for Joseph Gordon Levitt, so the thought of him donning the cowl is by no means the worst thing that could happen to this franchise. Could be the best thing, considering all the missteps this final film took, I am glad it did one thing right.
True Grit (Remake): Why Did He Ride The Pony
These two were so amazing on screen, I made them an alumni foil, double Oscar while watching them.
True Grit was awesome. It really was. Hailee Steinfeld was mesmerizing as little Mattie Ross, and the always amazing Jeff Bridges was, well, as always, amazing. And as perfect as the film was, one thing really bothered me, even though it was done on purpose. The fact that, after she is bitten by the snake, Cogburn takes Mattie back to the doctors using Mattie’s “pony,” instead of the bred and able horses that were all around him at the time (one of them is seen in the shot when he first gallops off).
I know it is supposed to symbolize the strength of the little horse, as well as the polarity of the strength of this old man, (while also symbolizing the perseverance of Mattie herself, even though she was at both of their mercy) but riding one pony to death, and risking a little girl’s death as the result of it, does not seem like something someone with true grit would do. Actually, riding a pony to death to save a little girl is pretty epic now that I am proofreading this out loud. Regardless, wiser decisions could have been made in that instance. Wiser, but maybe not as epic, and I respect that. Honestly, compared to the others on the list, this “hole” hardly bittered the sweet taste that this awesome film left in my mouth.
The Sixth Sense: How the F*ck Do You Not Know You Are Dead
Remember that time Bruce Willis got shot by Donnie from The New Kids On The Block? Yeah, either does he.
I know you need to suspend disbelief for modern day fables, and I respect that. I also know that The Sixth Sense tried to explain all these possible holes away with certain, targeted lines of dialogue. ” They don’t know they’re dead.” Or “They see what they wanna see.” And I know that they show Bruce Willis’ character trying to interact with his wife at the restaurant. but she ‘ignores” him, or so he thinks. But regarding that date, how did he get there? Did he drive? Was it a ghost car? The place he met her at was swanky, but we are to assume they didn’t have valet? At no point between when he was shot and when he realizes he was dead did he need to go to the store, or to get gas, or to pay bills? Or maybe life slows down, or speeds up after you die, or some other crap I missed, but the idea that the boy is the only person who speaks to him or even acknowledges him in that time frame is foolish. He either didn’t know he was dead, or was a pedophile who was just a wee too fascinated with the time he was spending with the little, broken boy who is allowed to walk alone through cities, and play by himself in dangerous neighborhoods. Either way, yuck, and plothole.
Being a hermit is one thing, but not being aware that you don’t exist is a pretty massive hole for me to look past. Like, Courtney Love sized.
For the Avengers I think something that was missing is what Stark was hinting at. He was telling Banner to embrace the Hulk, not try and hide from it. It becomes part of who he is. And I think that’s what was supposed to happen. This was something Stark mentioned and was never followed up on, so I’m assume some shit got cut where it’s followed up on. And I was thinking that’s how he controlled the Hulk at the end, he embraced it.
I also assumed (outside of the fallout) that Bruce got out of the Batwing before or right after he ran through the building. Using that as a distraction so he escapes. And the cuts with him in the cockpit are him piloting after he blew the escape seat or however they did it.
Yeah, all those are pretty bad plot holes……except for the Hulk one.
I thought it was quite clear what was going on and watching the behind the scenes stuff confirmed it.
The first time he Hulks out is a slip up on Banner’s part. He gets hurt and the adrenaline takes over and the change happens without him willing it.
Since he didn’t do it on purpose it is a rage reaction and the Hulk is more primal, out of control and the Banner part is completely shut out until the rage passes and he returns to normal. This is the way Loki thinks the Hulk always is.
The second hulking out is Banner willing the Hulk to come out and in a sense he can control his actions much better. This is how Banner normally wants to have the change happen. The idea of Banner being able to control his rage and change is a surprise to everyone as well as to Loki.
No plot hole.
Well, I heard someone explain Hulk as the first time he transformed unwillingly and the second time he transformed willingly, thus control. I’ll buy it 🙂 That movie was just fantastic.
As for TDKR, I’m sorry but I fail to see the issue. The movie makes it clear that he fixed the autopilot. Now if you look at the frames and countdown the time from when they last showed him in the cockpit to when the plane explodes, yeah, it’s probably not enough time but I don’t think films have to be scientifically accurate on that point. So for me, he ejected with more then enough time, the film just wants to make things dramatic and doesn’t portray time accurately anyway. Also, I personally liked the happy ending, but I’ve always been a sucker for those.
Haven’t seen two of the other movies and Sixth Sense, eh, I’ll just go with “they see what they want to see” but yeah, I noticed that hole too.
In addition to the two other Hulk comments, if you look at the end of the Hulk movie with Ed Norton, He seems to start down the path to where he can control the transformation at will. Since the Avengers builds off the other movies, you have to take this into account.
I think that DKR’s ending was suppose to be very Inception like and to be left up for the viewer to decide Bruce’s fate except instead of the back and forth incredible arguments for wheter the top stays spinning or did does it fall, was it all just a dream? Well we got almost everyone assuming Bruce lived.
It is my no means a stretch of the imagination to think that what we were saying was a passing fancy, a lovely daydream from the mind of Alfred while he sits in a cafe pondering all that has happened and what he will do with the rest of his life.
Prometheus, i think the zombie tranformation was a result of the worm thing in the alien ship.
Regarding Guy Pearce as ‘old’
“Ridley Scott’ initially wanted ‘Max Von Sydow’ for the role of Peter Weyland. However, Scott and Damon Lindelof conceived of a scene in which David the android (Michael Fassbender) would interface with Weyland while in hypersleep, and that Weyland’s dream would reflect his looks as a younger man since he is obsessed with immortality. Though the scene was cut from the script and never filmed, Guy Pearce had already been cast in the role and thus underwent extensive make-up to appear elderly. ”
– IMDB
Everyone is right about the Hulk thing. Makes perfect sense!
I also was pretty harsh on all of the things in TDKR that don’t make sense (of which are plenty!), but I still don’t get why the end gets picked apart so much. Batman is the one who “died” in the explosion. I don’t remember the public at large knowing Batman’s secret identity, so what’s wrong with Bruce Wayne wining and dining overseas?
On TDKR. I’m not going to try the math because every time I do I invariably screw it up.
Forget the autopilot thing. Let’s just assume he ejected almost immediately and before he flew over water requiring him to swim at a ridiculous speed.
How does he get the bomb 6 miles off the coast of Gotham in that amount of time? Even if he went 200 miles per hour, which is doubtful considering how much trouble the Batwing had dragging that bomb around the city, it would take close to 2 minutes to get that far out. That includes dragging time, avoiding building time, gaining altitude time… all that stuff that slowed him down. Plus the valuable seconds he spent making out Anne Hathaway which I suppose can be excused under the circumstances.
And what exactly are the environmental consequences of detonating a nuclear device over the water so close to a city? What about the fish, the water supply, the air, the shipping lanes… Yes the city is saved, but the long term damage could be pretty bad for decades. I’m almost wondering if a better plan might not to have let it explode in the underground, now flooded, control room. Yes it was close to the city, but it was also sort of designed to contain problems with the device. It could easily be contained the way they do nuclear reactors with concrete and such. In S.T.A.L.K.E.R. they called it the sarcophagus. Exploding over the ocean like that would spread nuclear material to god knows where and how far.
As for Prometheus… Guy Pierce’s makeup was the least of all the problems with that movie. The primary one is that the writers thought they were writing a story about teenage campers at a haunted lake and not professional and intelligent scientists making the scientific discoveries in human history. I would be afraid to let most of the characters in that movie handle non-plastic scissors much less write a dissertation on anything.
I thought Bane sounded like Sean Connery with a cold.
Also, “in some Parisian cafe” it was an Italian Cafe. Alfred loved the city of Florence. Plus, this was the ideal life Alfred wanted him to have, and he expressly described it. Maybe Bruce did what he did (leaving everyone behind to think he was dead and all the other dick moves) in honor of Alfred?
First off you should never have to apologize for a plot hole taking you out of the world the film is supposed to create. This is the reason we go to feature films. We want to be drawn into a world on the screen.
When a plot hole is exposed one of two things happens, either you ignore it or you obsess upon it as a distraction. Some are forgivable, like the Hulk in the Avengers. Others are incredibly frustrating that they can ruin otherwise enjoyable films.
The plot hole reminds me of an awesome dream that is interrupted by a unwanted phone call early in the morning on your day off. It does not matter the size, it is the impact. A pebble in your shoe does not hurt as much as getting hit with a rock–you notice both, the only difference is one will get you a modicum of empathy.
Basically, your not a film snob. More of an unreality purist.
Back to the Future II starting scene. “Hurry! We have to go to the future! We have no time to waste!”
WTF?
Joss addressed the Hulk in the commentary for Avengers. He says that Banner didn’t control the first change. That’s why he rages on the Hellicarrier.
I wanna start this by saying I get and understand the frustration given to each and every one of the plot holes described above. I know how hard it is to stay with a film once you see the hole. It can be like a nagging itch. With that being said though, it’s hard to get behind most of the issues you have with these films because the subject matter alone asks for you to suspend reality in so many ways that when you get to (in some cases) these niggling issues, you just come off pedantic.
Take the issue with the Hulk in “Avengers”. For you to even begin to question Banner’s ability to control his transformation you have to buy into a GREAT many things. For example:
1) that a man blasted with gamma radiation can TRANSFORM into a giant green monster
2) that said man is working with a team of people (including a God)
3) that the team is trying to stop LOKI from opening a portal to world so earth can taken over
When you start trying to question the plausibility of plot threads in scifi/fantasy/comic films you open the door for people to question where and why you draw your line where you do.
I genuinely enjoyed all of the films you’ve mentioned. With that being said, I can also point out flaws with each that are bigger than the ones mentioned above. I don’t though, because that’s not the point. I think far too many people spend their time judging films for not living up to their standard or ideal of how it should entertain them. It’s a very bleak and judgmental way to view something that’s sole purpose is to help you escape from your everyday. Honestly, if you’re so caught up in the water quality of Gotham that it took you out of TDKR entirely…then you probably shouldn’t be watching a movie about a billionaire that dresses up like a bat and fights crime to begin with.
Just saying…
The Hulk thing really wasn’t an issue if you paid attention. Unfortunately, TDKR was one of the worst movies of the year if you did pay attention. The plot holes most people mention (Joker, etc) are such a tiny, tint=y part of what made that film the Spider-Man 3 of 2012. But at least you had the balls to admit in public that the film was not perfect, and was in fact flawed to the very core of its being. Nolan has gotten extremely lazy since he was showered with praise for making a sci-fi film that was 50% unnecessary exposition of nonsense and is now at the point where he feels explaining his nonsensical storytelling is unnecessary and filling the screen with big booms and stuff is good enough. And for most people, it appears he is correct.
Mandy is right about banes voice.
^ You guys (and gals) are kind of awesome. I wanted to specifically post this here because I knew you would all have some really sound theories, and just because it was a plot hole to me, doesn’t make it a uniform plot hole.
Have taken all these comments into consideration, I need to forgive The Avengers a bit, which I wanted to anyway because it was such a fun ride.
Still mad at Batman, but mad with a passion that hints at love under the surface.
But you guys are the shit.
Thanks for the info!
I’m gonna go ahead and say that this may not be an airtight explanation, but it makes sense to me.
The black goo’s a parasitic, organic material that destroys life and rebuilds it. The only available life on the planet (at least, that’s accessible) at that point in the movie is the Prometheus crew. So the goo inhabits (and morphs) the form of the geologist to get back to them, along the way creating a creature powerful enough to take them on.
Presumably, Holloway would have had something similar happen to him, at least with the being reworked into a more powerful creature. He’s certainly starting to look strange when he gets torched.
The black goo is unpredictable, though, which I imagine is part of the point. Prometheus has issues here and there, but this isn’t one of them to me. Damn fine movie, too… warts and all.
Regarding Hulk, I interpreted that line to mean that it wasn’t so much that he was controlling when he wanted to be Hulk, as much as he was always controlling when he wanted to be human (ideally all the time), and that through it all, the anger that came from the Hulk raged within him constantly. Thus, letting go and allowing the Hulk to emerge was not difficult in the slightest. What he lacked was the ability to willfully return to being the puny human.
With respect to DKR, there was a subtlety of words that I noticed in the film. When Selena Kyle asks Bruce if he is going to fly the bomb over the bay and then eject, he responds with the words “No autopilot.” Given the rushed nature of the situation or Chris Nolan’s desire to fool us, the phrase comes out as typed above–with no comma between “No” and “autopilot.” I believe that he was actually saying “No, autopilot,” implying that he would not be ejecting over the bay. This is consistent with Lucius Fox’s discovery of the autopilot fix in a later scene. The next logical question you might ask is where did Bruce exit The Bat. My theory is that he ejected from The Bat into the building that he fires the cannons into as he begins to exit the city and is later pictured inside the Batmobile as the bomb is about to explode.
I could actually care less about the ending of DKR. I don’t mind turning a blind eye to ignoring scientific logic and physics for the sake of a story. The same with the Hulk situation in the Avengers…I truly don’t care because it didn’t distract me from the enjoying the movie.
What bothered me more about DKR were the character motivations and choices. The #1 being the idea of sending “every available” officer into the sewers of a city at once without any kind of reconnaissance or planning.
“Should we make sure we aren’t heading into a trap?. Doesn’t it seem like it’s just a clusterfuck bodies smushed together in a dark enclosed space?”
“Nope, send them all down at once, that’s the ticket”
That, and the way the movie handled Bane revealing the truth behind Harvey Dent/Two Face…it just felt so meh…no dramatic weight behind it…
The Avengers had mistakes, but at the end it really lived up to it’s potential and delivered a bad ass movie. DKR on the other hand had SOOOO much potential…and it just fell flat on it’s ass not truly commiting to anything it tried to do.
I had heard that Nolan truly questioned making a third movie at all. I’m sure part of it was pressure from WB because they saw the $$ to be made, another part could be his increasing ego, but I wished he either would have decided to not do it at all…or possibly waited longer until the script had time to be worked on more.
This explains The Hulk – http://imgur.com/a/lw53z
How about this plothole I discovered recently watching the first Harry Potter movie “Harry Potter & the Sorcerer’s Stone.” Quirrell (who is possessed by Voldemort) tells Harry he was trying to kill him earlier in the movie “and would have succeeded if it weren’t for Snape muttering his counter-curse.” But in the later movies Snape is a trusted right hand man to Voldemort. So…I guess Voldemort wasn’t paying attention to the fact that Snape WAS PROTECTING HARRY ALL ALONG!!!!
Many movies have plot holes and DKR some of the most. Im not gonna get into all of it cause i still do like the movie but…….By far the biggest plot hole is thought process behind driving around a bomb for a few months….. Having it on a timer and yet have a detonator.
Whats the end game, Killing everyone?????How bout just blow it up day 1, why not hide it in the city the size of NY or Lock it in a vault. To many choices to end it all in a way easier fashion then driving it around every day.
DKR – I immediately thought it was a textbook Nolan ending; do you trust what you’re seeing?
You see this at the end of both Inception and Memento, and I walked out of TDKR pissy about other things.
It’s bizarre to me that people are spending so much time and effort looking into timing and frames trying to do the math on the plane/bomb. I thought it was clearly a semi-dream sequence; a ‘what-if’.
Now can we add a 6th to the list? Transformers 2. Isabel Lucas’ character (don’t expect me to go look up who she was supposed to be). A decepticon who transforms into a human woman. If transformers can transform into people, aren’t we watching Battlestar galactica and not transformers? Really, really ruined everything about the modern franchise for me. And yes, I am aware it was the tip of a very large iceberg.
I looked through the other responses. I also thought the Hulk was being a douche when he punched Thor, but when I watched it a second time, I discovered it was supposed to be a “brotherly” punch to the shoulder. It was a “we did good” punch that got out of control because of the strength of the Hulk. I don’t think it was an intentional punch to knock him out.
I’m less bothered by Crazy Hulk turned into Responsible Hulk in Avengers than I am with The Engineer turning into Crazy Hulk in Prometheus.
I think you can actually use a concept from Inception to help get past your gripe with Sixth Sense. Every scene with Bruce’s character can be like a dream. He doesn’t think about how he got there, only what’s going on at that moment. Once he finally does start thinking about how things aren’t right (aka he’s dead), he starts seeing and remembering things how they actually were (sort of like when Cobb asks Cillian Murphy’s character how he got there and the dream starts to “collapse”).
Just to put things in a different perspective…
(in before “Inception/Nolan is overrated blah blah blah”)
Thank Deke. That’s pretty much what my theory always was, but I couldn’t find a good way to articulate it.
J.R. They actually explain that Harry Potter “hole” later on. Snape didn’t know that Quirrell had been possessed by Voldemort, and Voldemort accepted his explanation that he had no reason to allow Quirrell to kill Harry right under his nose, threatening his position at the school.
I think I can basically agree with everything you said here, even though I don’t remember Rooster riding a pony (not saying it didn’t happen, just remember it being a horse). But your issue with Bruce Willis in the Sixth Sense doesn’t make any sense. I see what you mean, but the entire point of the film is that he doesn’t know he was killed. He just doesn’t know, period. I know that’s a little simplistic, but that’s the point. I mean, if you think about something you don’t know, that doesn’t make you know it, it just makes you aware that you don’t know it. If Willis ever had some moment in the film where he said, “Hmmm, whatever happened to Donnie Wahlberg??” and looked into it, found out he was murdered, and then STILL didn’t realize it, I’m on your side.
I agree with the person above who states that Willis is in a dream state, as explained in Inception, where the dreamer does not know he’s dreaming and everything makes sense while it is happening.
In regards to TDKR, one would assume that Batman’s plane is at least as fast as the fastest jet fighter. After all, he’s known for possessing technology more advanced than anyone else has. The SR71 can travel about 180 miles in five minutes. There was plenty of time for Batman to set the auto pilot, eject and send the bomb far enough out to sea to minimize collateral effect. And, if he could have rigged it so the bomb explode deep in the water, the seawater itself would go a long way towards absorbing radiation. Water is what they use, after all, as primary and secondary coolant in nuclear ships.
@I_Like_icecream
I don’t think that was Nolan’s intention, though. In INCEPTION the idea of never being sure whether one is in a dream or reality is a theme than runs throughout the whole movie. Adding such an ending to TDKR without even hinting at the possibility…? No, I don’t buy it.
(I’d like to add that it’s great to actually discuss things without people getting at each others throats for a change, like they do on most other sites)
You completely missed part of The Dark Knight Rises. There was a whole story about the auto pilot needing to be fixed but Morgan Freeman didnt have time to do it so he suggested bruce do it in his spare time. Then at the end of the movie after the bomb blows up, it shows Morgan Freeman and someone else logging into the computer and seeing that Bruce had done maintenance after hours and it had been fixed . Morgan freeman smiled because he realized Bruce had fixed the auto pilot and was still alive because he was never inside the batwing or whatever when it flew away with the bomb. Batman just wanted to let everyone think he died so he could get out of the buisness and move on with his life and let Joseph Gorden Levett replace him (he left him the cave and equipment). He then went to the restaraunt so Alfered would see him because they had talked about that exact thing happening.
The biggest problem I had with Prometheus was that everything that happened hinged on incredibly smart people doing incredibly stupid things. Hey, look, an alien snake! I can handle plotholes but consistency of character is a big deal if I’m going to suspend disbelief for two hours.
how about you’re all a bunch of fucking idiots. every single one of you. they’re movies. they’re fictional. you want something to happen in real life with real results and exact scientific measurements? go learn about shit that actually happened in real life. movies have a couple of hours to tell you a story. and if they spent time with every detail it’d turn out to be a boring ass movie. so shut the fuck up and enjoy it for what it is…a movie. it’s fake.
^ This whole thread reeks of so much win.
Except for this dude above me who suddenly thinks he is giving us some heady revelation by telling us movies are fake.
Dude, I hate people like you.
We are very much aware it is fake, and we are finding enjoyment discussing those thoughts.
Sorry our joy and conversation brought out such hatred in you. Seems like you have Hulk issues you need to work on, Dude.
As for everyone else, best thread I have read on here in a long time, and definitely came away with different views on Avengers and Prometheus as a result, as well as a little more respect for the DKR.
BUT, I did pay attention to the auto pilot subplot, and it felt tacked on and weak to me, TBH.
Other than that, Love you kids so much right now.
Am I the only one who watched DKR? The entire plot of the story revolved around CLEAN engergy project. A “vanity save the world project”. It s a fusion reactor not fission. Fusion only emits neutron radiation which does not pollute the environment.. thus clean energy.. thus it can be carried in a truck or just left under the city without massive concrete domes like you see at every nuclear fission plant.. the stated blast radius is only 6 miles which is the only parameter that needs to be met to save the city.. there is no gamma radiation or nuclear waste or fall out.. otherwise why would it be a CLEAN energy project.. I thought you were all supposed to be nerds?
^ For the win
Well, I do have to point out, that at the end of DKR, Fox found out that Bruce fixed the auto-pilot on the ship. So, being the ninja that he is, he just made it look like Batman died, which was probably on purpose considering that all of the cops were out to get him anyway.
the Black goo was even stated in the movie to have been created to be a type of Bio-Warfare.
Bane sounded more like Sean Connery.
And the reason Bruce Willis didnt know he was dead was because thats the reasoning behind why there are lingering ghosts. they dont know theyre actually dead.
In DKR, you seem to have missed the part at the end where it is revealed that the auto-pilot had been fixed by a patch Bruce Wayne implemented beforehand. The autopilot was working; Batman wasn’t in the vehicle.
The plot hole I notice in 6th Sense is when BruceWillis is sitting in the chair playing the questions game with the kids. He assumes things and if they are right the kid takes a step closer etc etc.
Well how the f**k did Bruce get in the house and sit down in the first place if he doesn’t know he is a ghost?
Yeah, the Hulk thing is FAR from a plot hole, it actually brings everything full circle. Haven’t you heard of a dynamic character? The story line of the first two hulk movies wasn’t just dumped, Banner had been struggling to control the monster within and only lost control once in the Avengers. One’s greatest strength is greater when hidden, to boast of his control would be weakness.
The Dark Night thing is a stretch, at most, but not a plot hole. The autopilot contingency was setup earlier, we all know Bruce Wayne is smart enough, and we all know the Batman never truly retires. Besides, it would be far from the first time a DC hero came back from the dead. As far as the Joker is concerned, what does it matter that there’s no mention? In reality, we don’t hear about the maniacs of the past amid the ongoing destruction of the present maniac, except from a few talking heads pushing agendas.
True Grit? Plot hole you say? Meh. Whether or not it makes sense to the audience that he chose the pony (easier ride to slow the poison?), it doesn’t affect continuity, and that’s really what a plot hole is. We tend to react quickly in a crisis, there’s no time to plan out the best course of action; just pick a steed and go.
The Sixth Sense. Seriously? THAT’s the Shyamalan movie you decided to poke at? One of the good ones? Ok, it’s clear you’re over-thinking all of this. He’s dead, and hasn’t moved on. If people who are still living have trouble accepting reality as it is (see cognitive dissonance and related psychology) how is a dead person going to be any different? If life is like a dream, how much more is death? That’s really the simplest explanation. Ghosts are the dead who think they still live; if they knew they were dead, why would they hang around? In essence, his ongoing ethereal state is dream-like and surreal. And would you really expect that multiple people in a small circle of influence would be able to see dead people?
It’s been stated, but I’ll reiterate. There was no hole in the Avengers (at least as far as Hulking out goes). The first transformation was induced by Loki. Remember that entire scene where they’re all flipping out on each other in the lab, and the camera focuses on Loki’s staff with the glowing gem that controls minds? In fact, the scene literally flips upside-down while focusing on the staff. Loki is metaphorically turning them upside-down through the power of that artifact. The scene even ends with Bruce holding the staff without even realizing it. So much evidence that his first Hulk-out was unintentional, and uncontrolled.
Tony constantly telling Bruce to embrace the Hulk was supposed to be ironic, because Bruce had already done so, but wasn’t about to tell people that because they’d probably consider him a threat. If the events of the Avengers aren’t evidence enough of this, think back to the ending of The Incredible Hulk. In that movie, Bruce spent a lot of time researching anger and learning meditative practices to control it. The final shot of the movie is him off in some cabin somewhere, meditating, and his heart-rate monitor hits the limit where he’s supposed to Hulk out. But he doesn’t. His eyes just turn green, and he smiles. He achieved control by accepting the anger instead of fighting it.
I like that, agree or disagree, 90% of the comments are just debate and not epithet-slinging. That’s nice.
I felt like DKR and Avengers set up both of those “holes” within the narrative. It was implicit rather than explicit, and maybe both could have benefited from a little more explanation, but I enjoyed both movies a lot.
Prometheus was just poorly thought out, most unforgiveably in terms of characterization. #Postal’s analogy re: the scientists acting like camp counselors at a haunted lake is the best I’ve heard so far. That’s hilarious.
Pony versus horse – ponies have more stamina than a horse. Reasonable choice, given the circumstance.
Sixth Sense: it may not make sense to a living person, but the character not realizing he’s dead, despite the fact that he’s not alive and doing the things a normal person would do (going to work, taking a cab, whatever) his ignorance is completely in line with the internal logic of the movie. Ghosts are ghosts because they can’t quite let go. They need to move on, but can’t. If we accept that we can be a ghost in the first place, it’s not a stretch to think that they experience life in a kind of altered reality.
In tandem with the black goo in Prometheus, there is one even more glaring plot hole.
The space suits/environmantal suits the crew dons for the trip outside are said to be able to withstand extreme temperatures und extreme pressure and such. They even prove to be in the mega-hailstorm some of the crew are exposed to after their first trip to the structure.
Yet later, as one of them is infected with the black goo, it simply burns to cinders after a few blasts from the flamethrower.
And the suits dome shatters after a single blow in the fight with the zombie and from someones fall to the floor.
Sure, I’d go out into space in these things anytime! XD
In the DKR, they did in fact explain how he escaped. The auto pilot on the “jet” needed programming, and Mr. Fox at the end was doing a tour of the Batmans gadgets and was told that the auto pilot had been programmed by Bruce Wayne himself. Therefore he got away by using the auto pilot.
There are more evident plot holes in the DKR than just the ending.
In Batman Begins Bruce says “you still haven’t given up on me yet have you Alfred?” Alfred replies “never.”
In the middle of the third movie Alfred gives up on him. After supporting Bruce for almost a decade he just ups and leaves because he can’t stand to see Bruce go through with being the Batman one last time? I don’t think so.
It was obvious to me that his character needed to take a back seat so this was an easy fix to cast him aside for the rest of the movie until the end.
So, nobody in Gotham put two and two together that Batman and Bruce Wayne are the same person…even though there were like five other tumblers around Gotham that look not identical but similar to the bat mobile.
Bane gets taken out like a panzee. After catwoman shoots him you should see him faintly in the distance grow to an outrageous size and step back into the sunlight light and Batman and Catwoman commence to the final battle with Bane.
I do think it is brilliant that Robin was in the movie but at the same time Robin wasn’t in the movie.
I liked The Dark Knight Rises, but a lot about the movie bugged me. Now I know why. I didn’t really see Bane as such a badass villain that they made him up to be. People just shat their pants when they saw him and he was just a guy with a mask. Someone get a sniper and shoot him already.
On the note..
Thank you for saying what you said about The Sixth Sense. Everybody says the movie its genius. They say: “you feel like and idiot and, when you go back and watch the movie again, you see all the clues were there”.
The fuck it was… The little kid gets home and there’s his mom sitting on a chair and Bruce Willis sitting on the next one. How the fucking fuck did he get in? The mom didn’t open the door to a ghost she can’t see. And I’m pretty sure the guy would noticed being able to walk through walls.. I mean.. It COULD be justified by the fact that he sees what he want to see. So he probably saw the mother opening the door for him, even tough she didn’t. But.. I dunno, it always seemed like a lame ass explanation to me.
To add on to what the others have said about Bruce Willis’ character… I remember a similar explanation being given in “What Dreams May Come” about the detachment from linear time, and consciousness being experienced in packets. That’s what I clung to anyways.
DKR the auto pilot carried the bomb easy. Bruce wasn’t being a dick Alfred told him that was what he always pictured. Being with Catwoman, Bruce understood her, she felt she never had a choice about what she did because of her past, just like Bruce Wayne “had” to be Batman. They both got the clean slate. The holes in DKR were How the hell does the CIA plane not have radar and see the other plane coming? and sending all the cops into the underground was just silly. Also Bruce has a broken back and bad knees but a couple of pull ups and he is fixed? (should have just mentioned the Lazarus gas)
I’m ready for the flames but I thought DK had more holes. Most glaring when Batman beats the joker in the interogation room. I get the Joker is crazy but now he doesn’t bleed? Batman who can break limbs with ease doesn’t give the Joker a bloody nose when he slams his head off a wall? Oh and the Badass mob guys didn’t just have him shot when he walks into their secret meeting before doing his “magic” trick. It was a good movie but if you want to poke holes DK was full of them.
I’ll do you one better in sixth sense. The kid days to a Bruce Willis (a dead guy) “i see dead people.” The kid had to know Bruce Willis was dead. So there’s no way he would say that to a dead guy unless his only intent is to toy with a dead guy. This line said to Bruce Willis also conveniently makes it impossible for the audience to ever guess that Bruce Willis is a dead guy. Total cheat masquerading as a surprise ending.
The genius of the Sixth Sense is exactly what you are complaining about as being a plot hole. It’s not a plot hole. I will explain. Bruce Willis is dead and has no sense of “time and space”. This is even mentioned in the movie. NOONE actually physically or verbally interacts with Willis except the kid. This is because like the other ghosts, he is drawn to the kid because of his power. The scene where he is sitting with the mother just starts. The mother doesn’t interact with Bruce, she doesn’t see him. He didn’t drive his ghost car and walk in upon her invitation, he simply manifested. He has no sense of time passing or the reality around him. MKS is using your assumption of “off camera” action or reality in order to fool you and build the twist.
Bruce wears the same clothes through the whole movie because there is no tomorrow, or night, or day. There is only the present here and now for him. He’s a ghost and is drawn to the kid to find solace for himself because of his failure with the patient who shot him.
One of the biggest plot holes that bugs me (a little because overall I liked the movie) was in Texas Chainsaw 3D. They paid glorious attention to detail, including the dates which were all based off the original film’s date but overlooked that the main character would have been about 40 instead of in her 20s. I know why they did it, it would have been a different movie altogether if she was the right age and the actress was very nice eye candy. It kinda taints (huh huh I said taint) the actual goodness of the movie due to that one glaring error, but one I can get past realizing why they needed to do that. But it still bugs me a little since they really nailed all the details to satisfy the old school fans and told a different story than the others overall.
The Sixth Sense one is fairly self-explanatory. It’s kinda like having a dream. You could have the wildest dream imaginable, but you’d very rarely question it. To you, that crazy dream is completely logical while you’re in it. When Bruce Willis is at that restaurant with his wife, he’s not thinking about how he got there, he’s already there, so it doesn’t matter. It’s like his mind is telling him that there’s a perfectly reasonable answer to that question, so there’s no need to dwell on it. When he’s sitting quietly with the kid’s mother, he’s not thinking about the fact that he’s never actually met her before because it’s not about her, it’s about the kid. His mind has told him that the two of them have spoken and that she knows why he’s there, even though, to her, he’s not there at all.
I don’t think it can be considered a plot hole if it’s not only done by design, but also specifically addressed in the movie itself.
in the sixth sense bruce willis told his wife he was having trouble keeping track of time.