May 02 2011
Happy Osama Bin Laden is Dead Day
It may be a uniquely American thing to celebrate the murder of someone as more or less a national holiday, but in the case of Osama Bin Laden, I think that’s more than justified.
Yeah, it’s outside of our usual scope here, but it’s a big day in our country, and I thought it was prudent to at least mention it.
I found out about it this morning on Twitter of all places with Edgar Wright’s tweet that said “Now that @TheRock has taken out Bin Laden, I hope he can double his efforts in catching Dominic Toretto.” Hah.
I did some Googling, and sure enough, it’s true. I figured he had died years ago of kidney failure, and had his followers burn him so he would forever remain a ghost. That probably would have been a better plan than hiding and getting killed by a Black Ops team for the whole world to see. It really is an incredible story where Navy Seals raided a high security fortress to kill Bin Laden inside Pakistan, and you can read more about the details here.
America has had it pretty rough lately, so it’s definitely nice to have a win for once.
So, when’s the movie coming out?
More Unreal Posts
or another dlc for CoD black ops =)
I felt the exact same way. I was watching the celebrations and I completely understood it for about a minute. Then I just got sick to my stomach. I’d like to think that most people were happy because this could be a significant event in the road to ending this war, but I don’t really think that is the case.
I could not believe how many tweets and status updates I saw thanking god for Bin Laden’s death. How hypocritical is that? Not really in line with the idea of turning the other cheek, is it?
Turn the other cheek? How about an eye for an eye?
To be honest, I clicked this post for the captioned picture.
The people in this country are just disgusting. They are too blinded by “justice being served” and all of their displays of patriotism to realize that there is a bigger picture to be considered now and that is retaliation. Everyone thinks everything will be better now and it won’t be, I hate to sound negative or morbid but it has the ability to get worse now. Killing him didn’t change anything, there is still terrorism in the world, we’re still at war but unfortunately everyone is too busy partying in the streets to realize that. The war is far from over and now his people have a Martyr to look up to and defend in his name.
“America has had it pretty rough lately, so it’s definitely nice to have a win for once.” Are you kidding me? Any “rough” things that has happened to this country lately is nobodies fault except the country.
He was already a martyr to his followers. I don’t believe people think everything will be better now. We are not stupid; we know that we are still at war. We did however take out one of the big protagonist of said war.
@ bret
we just took down one of the biggest, if not the biggest terrorist around.. of course we are happy. we celebrate for those who brought him down. we celebrate because this is a huge milestone. we’re not ignorant to the fact that there is still war, possibilities of terror attcks, or anything like that. this is a long battle still being fought. but this is evidence that things are getting done. we celebrate that.
The common view of an eye for an eye is thanks to Hammurabi. In the bible and through Old Judaic principles it was meant for financial crimes, meaning that those who had something stolen would be compensated.
War? You Americans have a funny idea of “war”… My Grandparents knew “war”, No civillian in America has seen war for centuries. Some people should start thinking of what makes someone do something. There are reasons. Hitler was not he reason for Germany to start WW2, Osama wasn’t the Reason for 9/11, and videogames are no reason for highschool massacres. The People who are violent are in most cases powerless, have little to no perspective, and feel to be treated unfair. USAmerica is no “country”, Switzerland or bahrain is a country, USA are an Empire, and it has worked hard for beeing hated in most parts of the World since the last day of WW2. All over the Cold War they have suppressed any democracy beeing too “left”, installed dictators, spread their economy, fought a ton of proxy wars, etc etc. and now they are surprised for beeing hated by the people who are poor because of this politics?
For me this christian fanatics in the US (eye for an eye? really? get your history staight… that rule was meant to be a limitation, not a guideline) as disgusting as the muslim fanatics or the jewish fanatics in israel. Religions suck. Big time.
Okay, religion aside, do you not agree that Bin Laden was an evil man that attacked us first? Why would America not retaliate?
Uncoolaidman and Bret, amen.
Unreality writer, it IS quite the story isn’t it…
One more site to delete from my blog folder. One less set of eyes on your advertisements. Hope it is all worth it for ya in the end.
If I lose a reader because I said it’s good Osama Bin Laden is dead, then I guess I really have seen everything on the internet, and so be it.
No, this doesn’t end the wars or stop terrorism or any of that, but for many, this is some measure of justice for the family of those killed on 9/11, an act for which he is directly responsible. The fact is, the world is better without him in it, and I don’t understand how anyone views this as anything but good news. America has its own sins to be sure, but killing Bin Laden for all his acts of terrorism isn’t one of them.
Religious extremists who go around murdering people in the most horrifying ways like the scumbags from Al Qaida sicken me to the stomach, and are among the worst people in the world. I hate them with a passion, and so yeah, I’m glad that Osama Bin Laden has been brought down, that he finally got caught.
But that is all. To make a big party out of it, to be so fucking cheerful because of bloodshed, it’s disgusting. By going that way, we move a few steps closer in the direction of people we so utterly hate, and lose a part of our humanity. He got caught, which is a good thing. But let’s refrain from making this a huge celebration, shall we? Make it a choice for dignity.
I’m well aware of America’s many crimes since and before WWII and I understand the rage many Muslims have against my country more than most. That said, Osama should have been buried at Ground Zero with a working urinal as his headstone. There is no justification for targeting civilians over personal political issues and I can’t argue that he did not deserve to die via headshot. A mass murderer is gone, Satan has a new fluffer, and Obama now has a club to beat his Republican adversaries with. Everyone wins. Get of your high horse, Fabian.
I have to say I’m relieved that he’s dead. Justice is done. But I do think a celebration is too much. This is a time to show that you are civilized. The celebrating only reminded me of al qaeda celebrating after 9/11. I was kinda surprised that he lived in the biggest en most secured villa in town. It even stands out in google earth.
@Drester
Hear hear, exactly how I feel about this whole thing. You phrase it well.
Time to show that we are civilized, people. We’re not fucking animals for crying out loud.
@ Lacy
Woah, I never said we did not have the right to retaliate, but I see the purpose of such a retaliation to be the incapacitation of a dangerous threat, not a mission of revenge. That is what this whole war has become for many people. I will celebrate when this war is over, not when we kill an enemy leader. I hate what Bin Laden did, that does not mean I should relish in his death. I would be sinking down to his level. Like drester said, it was very reminiscent of the celebrations of 9/11 that took place in the Middle East. The celebration of death is simply barbaric, no matter who the person.
No. I do not buy this argument comparing this to the celebration of 9/11. They were cheering the death of 2,500 civilian men women and children, we are glad that a mass murderer can’t hurt anyone else and has paid for his crimes. To say there’s similarity between those is absurd. After an initial collective reaction of more or less “fuck yeah!” most of us are just sitting inside watching news coverage. I don’t think anyone’s planning any massive blowout with fireworks and effigy burning. Except maybe Stephen Colbert.
On May 1st, 1945 Hitler’s death was reported to the world. Would you also condemn those who celebrated that? This man is my generation’s personification of evil, and to rejoice when such evil is vanquished is an understandable and appropriate human reaction. To put it in terms more relevant to this site, it’s like the Emperor dies at the end of Return of the Jedi, and you want us to sit around quietly contemplating the loss of life on the second Death Star instead of having a party with the Ewoks.
Bin Laden was not Doctor Doom he was just a criminal and should have been arrested and tried in a court of law. Storming his compound like it was Hitler’s bunker isn’t a win for America: extremists have a new martyr, fallen in their glorious “war” while Americans celebrate the death of a sociopath assassinated contrary to the principles of the rule of law that their great nation was founded on.
Terrorism is a crime committed by private citizens on the State it is not combated by declaring war on it; wars are fought between nations. To say you’re fighting a war against terror elevates the deluded few that would use terror to attack the rule of law to the same level as the state.
It affords them a level of validity that they do not and should not have.
Calling it a war on terror means, to borrow a phrase, the terrorists have already won.
That said he was a nasty fucker and I’m not sorry he’s dead, I just wish he could have been tried publicly
i don’t believe justice for violence is more violence. i also do not believe the death of bin laden changes ANYTHING at all.
how would america feel if, say, north korea took out our current president and then danced, chanted and waved their flags in the street. no, i’m not comparing our president with bin laden, but i’m saying that the celebration would piss us off and make us want to retaliate.
why are we not expecting retaliation from his followers for being so blatant and gregarious about our “victory”.
violence begets violence and we are supposed to be a better nation and stand for justice, not just revenge.
There were massive celebrations. I heard and saw fireworks. A friend of mine heard fireworks accompanied by gunshots. There were massive gatherings on most college campuses, not to mention the two in NYC and Washington D.C. We took out one guy, that did not make us safe by any means. We have been advised to be cautious while traveling. Sure Bin Laden can no longer hurt anyone else, but there are plenty other extremists who can.
The death of Hitler marked the end of WWII. VE day was literally a week after. This is not the end of the war on terror. Yes, I do condemn any person celebrating the death of another human being. Being happy that innocent people have been removed from harm’s way or that a war has ended is a great reason to celebrate. I know I am in the minority here, but hearing a headline about people celebrating the killing of a person rubs me the wrong way.
Wow- Some of you are really fucking clueless. Americans (and the world) have every right to celebrate the death of a mass murderer. Are there any among you who would argue that bin Laden was not evil? Should we not feel joy when someone that is evil is killed? Get your priorities straight and get off your high horses.
Good post, Paul.
No, we should not feel joy when someone evil is killed. We should be happy that he/she can no longer harm anyone else. We should be upset that it had to wind up that way in the first place. I am happy Bin Laden can never harm any other person ever again, however, I will never be happy that he had to be killed. Sorry I have a different opinion than you Madison, but I am not clueless, and I have never asserted that I am better than anyone else on this site. I thought this would be a civil debate, I guess I was wrong.
Now you’re arguing in semantics and being obtuse. When someone evil is killed, they can no longer harm anyone else.
Is it good that he had to be killed? No, but the situation was what it was – this was a man who was determined to destroy the United States – you, your family, and your friends, and had dedicated his life to recruiting others to scheme with him to do so. I’m very, very happy that he’s dead. How he’s dead is another story, but trust me, I have no problem with him getting his head blown off. The guy was the personification of evil, and any reasonable person would not dare to argue otherwise. If you want to say that he was driven by U.S. occupation in Muslim lands, fine with me – but that doesn’t justify killing thousands of innocents.
What is the proper response? To sit on our hands and pretend we’re not happy that an enemy of our country and our way of life has been removed from this world permanently? That sounds mighty pretentious to me.
And they gave him a burial at sea? Yeah, cause that worked so well with Megatron…
@Madison
I also have no problem with his head being blown off. I’m relieved that he is finally dead. But I don’t have a feeling of joy or happiness. It saddens me that people like him walk the earth and murder thousands of people. The death of bin laden also didn’t reduce the terrorist treat, but may have increased it. I can’t be happy with that on my mind.
It’s horrible that people like bin Laden do exist, and I do not believe the terrorist threat -whatever your assessment of it may be – is reduced. I agree with you on those points. Still, this does not and should not negate any feelings of joy, happiness, relief, or any other positive feelings people may feel as a result of bin Laden no longer being alive.
I do understand the emotions but I’m also concerned about the image of the usa in the world. The latest images “we” got from you was that pastor burning a koran and now the celebrating and burning of bin laden pictures. You will probably say ” screw everyone who gets offended by that” but that’s not how the world works. I’m just saying, it doesn’t help.
“Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.” In other words this guy was asking for this end, it can sound cynic but if you see it this way he finally got what he deserved.
The death of an enemy is a thing to be celebrated. If you’re not willing to fight for your freedom and peace, then you will have neither.
Some people are born rabid, others are made that way; whatever the reason, it doesn’t matter. Unfortunately, you will never, ever be able to reason with them, and any attempt to do so is perceived as a weakness and only emboldens them to further violence. The only way to be safe from those who mean you harm is to destroy their ability to endanger you.
From the comments, I’m sorry many of you are too misguided or brainwashed to see that. I hope many of you aren’t Americans, because frankly that would sicken me. I’m seeing a lot of christian aphorisms on this board… you can shout your christian philosophy from the rooftops all you want: it’s not based on real data. The world is an ugly, cruel place, and the only monsters here are human.
If the world consistently doesn’t conform to your preconceived notions of reality, perhaps it’s because your fundamental assumptions are wrong.
@ Asmodeus
If you think the world is an ugly and cruel place then yes the death of your enemy must be your highlight. If you want to dance on the grave of your enemy, go right ahead.
Also, we did not ‘murder’ him, we killed him. When it’s an enemy combatant, it isn’t murder. Murder is what his cronies did 10 years ago.
great post paul!
we celebrate the fall of our enemies absolutely! we celebrate the work of our friends and family and everyone in the military that made this happen. @jake, osama was killed during war. that is far from murder indeed, good call. who would not want to celebrate the killing of a terrorist who has caused the the death of thousands of innocents? we did what was best for the US. yeah, extremists will retaliate, they would have if we had left his sorry a$$ alilve.. however we did not, and i feel much better about that. have a drink and piss in the ocean. live it up. the military has done a great job. congrats to everyone in the armed forces for your efforts and harde work! thsnkyou for making the US a safer and more comfortable place. anyone else who is upset or appalled by these actions… cry me a river, and as stated before.. get off your high horse..
a little too close to election season to me… found in a extreme high security fortress? How did we not look there before? Seems like the obvious choice. Why has it taken this long?! Just another play in a game greater than anyone of us can see..
Funny how soon after Obama made the declaration saying that Osama was killed, there were already dozens of people around the white house and “ground zero” waving little american flags and screaming USA! USA! Great timing huh…. almost as it was all staged.
And in the slightest possibility that this is true, as it was already said by some open minded commenters here (not the usual he deserved that, fuck yeah america, we have bigger guns and etc), he should have been brought to justice, to pay for his crimes, not been killed in an sneak attack to have his body dumped in the ocean. To call this barbaric would be a compliment.
@André,
That’s the dumbest comment I’ve ever read on this site. People knew an hour before the declaration that osama was killed. And are you saying you don’t believe he is killed?
Oh, and he has been brought to justice and payed for his crimes;)
@ Drester
First, I don’t remember offending you in any way drester, so shut the fuck up if you can’t have a proper conversation. Second, the president said he would give an important declaration, but didn’t said about what. There were only rumors floating around smartass, the only dumb commentary I see here is yours, aside the usual military propaganda bullshit. And yes, I am saying he wasn’t killed in this operation, because there is no body to be seen, and this history of burial on the sea only convinces obamabots like you.
@ André
Well that is quite an operation they pulled off then. But if you really think this was fake, no evidence will convince you. Here’s the timeline of the news, but you probably don’t believe that either.
8:25 p.m.: Keith Urbahn, former chief of staff under defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s chief of staff, breaks the news that Osama Bin Laden is dead.
8:54 p.m.: The New York Times’ Helene Cooper confirms report, tweeted by NYT’s Jeff Zeleny.
9:00 p.m.: White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer tweets that Osama bin Laden is dead
9:30 p.m.: Encouraged by social media, crowds begin to gather at the White House, Times Square, Ground Zero and numerous other public gathering places around the country.
9:35 p.m.: President Obama addresses the American people.
@ Drester
Fine, you have a point. I wasn’t aware people already knew about this before the president’s speech. I still find the timing of those people gathering around strategic places so quickly a little odd, but I’ll take your word for it that they already knew of what the announcement was about.
You talk about evidence, but that’s what this whole case is missing. All we have so far are stories told by the government about what happened, but they refuse to show hard evidence. Now the White House is saying it will not show the pictures of Osama after being shot because they are too gruesome and this could cause a backlash from extremists (Link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382828/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-picture-White-House-NOT-release-gruesome-photo.html). So after invading Osama’s mansion, shooting him in the face and throwing his body at the ocean they are concerned that showing pictures will result in backlash? That is pure nonsense, the islamics are already enraged because of this whole case being treated the way it is, and the informations being released are incomplete and innacurate, to say the least.
I’m not being unreasonable, I just want to see proof that he was really killed in this operation.
@ André:
‘islamics are already enraged’
Islamic extremists, maybe. Islamics in general, no.
@ Some guy
I did mean islamic extremists, but since I already mentioned them earlier in my post, I thought it was implicit. Thanks for the correction anyway.
@Uncoolaidman
Not to be blunt, but stop being such a pussy. Your saying you wished he was tried in court, however, your relieved that he can’t hurt anyone else. What DevGru did, was exactly what your fucking preaching. They made sure he wouldn’t be able to harm anybody ever again. You can argue the fact that the united states should have gave him a fair trial for the deaths of thousands. But you know what? Fuck him. He didn’t deserve that. He deserved a bullet between the eyes which is exactly what he got. I’m a Canadian, and I’m thrilled that son of a bitch is dead.
@André
I think you’re right. Real evidence is lacking at the moment. I was quite surprised that they won’t show the pictures. It doesn’t chance my opinion about the case, but maybe that’s because I ‘trust’ Obama. If it was an action from Bush I probably would have had the same opinion as you.
On the other hand, what does evidence mean these days. I can still see Powell sitting there showing the clear cut evidence. That time I really thought he was telling the truth. So yeah, evidence doesn’t mean everything. Especially these days. In an hour I could give you a picture of me kicking bin laden in the balls.
I knew as soon as I heard he was dead that there’d be people out there trying to be “different”. It happened after 9/11 (“But they thought they were doing the right thing, so doesn’t that make them heroes in a WAY?”–Actual quote from a girl at my high school; another girl later said, “Well, when you think about it, we kind of deserved it”), and it’s happening now. Some people just deserve to have their deaths celebrated, and Osama Bin Laden was one of those people. Don’t feel bad for him. He wouldn’t feel bad for us.
@ Drester
Let me just say that your last sentence was great, I laughed my ass off here.
And you’re right, in this day and age it’s hard to know if what you are looking at is the real deal or something modified. And like you, I do trust Obama more than Bush… but in this case, it’s hard for me to just believe in what he said, you know. Everything just seems a little shady in my opinion, and they are not making this easier by refusing to show what little evidence they have. And the story of how he was killed is very contraditory; first they said he was armed and used his wife as a human shield, there was a firefight and both were killed. Now they changed the story and are saying he was unarmed, didn’t used his wife as a human shield but offered resistance anyway. I can’t imagine how an unarmed man could offer resistance against a group of heavily armed navy seals, unless he was some kind of Jason Bourne.
And now in another turn of events, a 12 years old girl (one of Osama’s daughters) is claiming his father was captured right after the army stormed his mansion. Soon after he was executed in front of his family. (Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383106/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-Wife-watched-die-White-House-reveals-WASNT-armed.html)
I’m with you here… he got what he deserved, one way or the other. I still wish they had captured him instead of killing him, or at least kept the body, so we could have irrefutable proof. The way things are now, this story has a long way to go until all loose ends are explained.
@Andre
For me the story of how he was killed only confirms that they are telling the truth. They are essentially saying that he wasn’t armed or a treat and they executed him then and there. If they were making it up, why would they come up with such a story. If there isn’t any evidence, why not just say he was armed and used a woman as a shield and begging for his life. Who is gonna tell otherwise?
@ Drester
So following your logic, it was best for the White House to use the first version of what happened, that Osama was armed and used his wife as a human shield. That would explain why the seals had to kill him. Then why would they change their version to something that put all that happened in a questionable view? I know the man was hated, but think about it: what was the advantage of killing him, from a strategical point of view? If he were captured they could interrogate him, discover a lot of information about al-qaeda, maybe others terrorists groups and who knows what else that would help destroy those terrorists cells more easily.
I understand that to you and to most people it is enough to know that he is dead. But that doesn’t explain why they choose to kill him, unarmed, when capturing him would bring much more advantages to them.
@ André,
Well yeah, there are two questions to be answered. Was he killed then and there? and if that’s true, Why was he killed? You are doubtful about the first one, but as you said. Why would they change their version to something that put all that happened in a questionable view? I do not know if their first version was an official statement, but if it was an hoax as you suggested, in my opinion they wouldn’t have said they shot him unarmed. They would have said something that’s in favor of their position.
The answer to the other question is debatable. For one, I’m not 100% sure that they wanted him dead. Sure they are highly trained marines, but if you have bin laden in your sights, it’s pretty hard to keep your finger off the trigger.
The other explanation would be that they didn’t want him on trial. They can’t just do the same as with Saddam Hussein. Also, did you know that bin laden was never charged with the attack on 9/11? How would it look if after years of prosecuting, they couldn’t convict him for 9/11. Look at the trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who is the ‘mastermind’ of 9/11. For the last six years they are trying to convict him. He even confessed and all, but they just can’t seem to convict him. Prosecuting Bin laden would become one big disaster.
Yeah, those statments about what really happened in the operation are confusing me to no end… I think it’s best to just wait until they gather all the information to see what will come out.
You make a valid point on whether they wanted do kill him or not… it would be hard to see the man face-to-face and hold the trigger, but I guess we’ll never know if they even had the intention of arresting him. They most likely went for the kill, which looks more like an act of revenge than one to uphold justice in a democratic way. Like a bishop said in an interview, “It’s a failure of the whole world order that nobody in a position of responsibility trusts that we have systems of justice to cope with such a vast set of crimes as this man is responsible for.” This statment is in the link I posted a while ago.
Again, I’m relieved that he’s dead. I believe most people are. But this can open a precedent where it’s acceptable to kill someone without following the laws our very society is based upon. One could say this is a special case, where they didn’t have a choice. But it is completely possible that they could have captured him, it is already confirmed that he was unarmed. If even those monsters from WWII were put on a courtroom (The Nuremberg Trials), everyone else should have the same opportunity, whether they deserve this chance or not is another story.
Answering your question, I did know that Osama wasn’t charged with the 9/11 attacks, and I agree with you, if he were put on trial, it would be a political and social nightmare. I really can’t say what would be the best option here. I guess you’re right: it would all end in a big disaster. But it’s a sad state of affairs when the only alternative they could find is more violence.
@ Drester
Forgot to adress you in my last post. And I wanted to thank you and everyone else here with an open mind for having these discussions. I was very happy to find a place where I could share my point of view without people swearing and treating me like trash. I’m learning a lot from some posts here and I hope what I said so far can help anyone see this case in another light.
@ André
Interesting that you mention the Nuremberg trials. These trials initiated the establishment of the International Criminal Court and the United States is the only western country who is not a member. Let’s not even start with the failure to ratify other key international conventions.
It’s been a pleasure discussing these subjects with you. Although we had quite a rough start, I think it became an interesting discussion. Thank you for that.
@ Drester
You’re one of the most articulate and reasonable people with whom I talked to online, I really enjoyed our discussions. It was my pleasure, too. I wish all the best for you. I hope these events don’t cause a lot of reprisals around the world, I’m tired of seeing violence and death creating more violence and death.
See you around Drester
@Andre/Drester
Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
oh shit, comments get moderated?
that was a perfect delivery, too.